Speaking from the Christian perspective, since it is Jesus who brings up the whole "judge not" discourse: When Jesus said, "Judge not unless you be judged.. for you will be judged by the same measuring stick with which you measure others...", Jesus was referring to 1) hypocrisy and 2) judging with God's type of authority.. Jesus didn't condemn people having opinions or formulating conclusions. He condemned people putting a sentence on a person so as to determine their eternal state. We are like a jury who sees, hears and smells, gathers a conclusion from the evidence we are privy to, and reach a decision which we present socially, morally and spiritually. We reach that conclusion based on God's law, of course, not our own interpretation. Then GOD judges... he passes sentence. He condemns or frees. That is the kind of judgment we are forbidden to engage in, yet those who misuse that Scripture end up judging while pretending to be above it. (emphasis added)of course, i want to talk about this. i answered amy back and was hoping she'd respond, but since she hasn't (she's very busy with her own blog, i'm sure…) i thought i'd start a thread here and gather thoughts on the subject.
what threw me for a loop follows...
Jesus didn't condemn people having opinions or formulating conclusions. He condemned people putting a sentence on a person so as to determine their eternal state.i have honestly never heard this before and if it is true, then i've been thinking the wrong way for a very long time. if it's "okay" to have opinions and formulate conclusions (and make pronouncements on them), which we all do if only to ourselves then judging, in this manner, is totally acceptable. it's only when you put a sentence on someone, as in "you are going to hell," that's when it's wrong. the other stuff? that's okay.
things that make you go "hmmm."
maybe because i read this statement very early this morning, i really wanted some back-up with respect to where this explanation is found in (a) Scripture, (b) long-held Catholic doctrine, or (c) other reliable sources. i said i didn’t really want a debate, and i am sticking to that (right, Michael?) but i want to discuss this. at length.
dictionary.com describes "judgmental" as follows:
judg*men*tal P Pronunciation Key (j j-m n tl)
adj.
1. Of, relating to, or dependent on judgment: a judgmental error.
2. Inclined to make judgments, especially moral or personal ones:
i thought we weren't supposed to be judgmental? yes, we are to use right judgment, which is one of the gifts of the Spirit bestowed upon us at our confirmation (as Catholics), but right judgment in that sense is along the lines of employing our discernment. but judgmental? isn't that evaluating someone based on what you "see" and not what you "know?" are we not to deem and view others as better than ourselves?
further in amy's comments to me, she stated:
I am not condemning any soul to hell or pronouncing eternal judgement, which is what Jesus warned against in his discourse about judging not. The sin which nailed Christ to the cross is sin celebrated by many of these artists, and I am obligated by my faith to oppose that.wow. putting it that way, i suppose i am obligated by my faith to oppose the sin of gossip that so easily ensnares some of my customer - up until now, i thought if i heard what was being said through gossip and thought to myself "what an unrighteous pig! how low of them to say crap like that - they need to go to church..." that was being judgmental and not what we are supposed to do.
based on the logic above, it is okay to say/think/feel in my heart this way because i am not saying "gee whiz - they need to go to HELL for saying that!yikes!"
before now, i simply opposed gossip because it's in my best interests not to engage in it...however, I never looked at it as the "sin which nailed Christ to the cross" and am obligated by my faith to oppose it... i just thought it was tacky. ::shrugs::
it's a lot of rhetoric. it may even seem like a little tongue-in-cheek'ing but i am being serious. according to this logic, judging someone is simply believing they are going to hell and everything else is fair game.
i'll save this, her last comment to me, for another time...
Also, you said: "if it raises awareness and funds for the cause, does it really matter who did it?" Do you use that logic when it comes to priests who've abused children? I mean, who are we to judge, when they've just read from the Gospels and given us the Holy Eucharist**sigh**
in all fairness, i just edited this post to suggest you traipse back into my live8 thread and read her comments in their entirety; a second reading of this post made me think i was being selective in what i highlighted. anything in its entirety and in truth is better than piecemeal and potentially out of context...thanks :)
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