fence sitting

during the meetings, i have heard on more than one occasion you are to take what you want and leave the rest.

the meeting on tuesday night was rough because not only am in recovery for my alcohol dependency, i still have a difficult time with the "it is a sickness" part and i am trying to reconcile that within myself. i had a shitful childhood because of my stepfather's "illness" because along with that illness came a lot of harsh words and actions that left an indelible mark on me and my heart. we read something from the big book the other night that really disturbed me entitled "to Wives." it basically was instructing women (who this ancient book is geared toward in the "this is a man's problem" sense) on how to react and deal with their alcoholic husband in a non-critical way and i found myself sitting on the fence between the struggling alcoholic who desires to be clean and just begs for a bit of indulgence while i figure it all out and my inner (apparently still hurting) 14 year-old who shielded her younger brothers from the onslaught once dad was high again...why should she be so understanding?


truth be told, i was very uncomfortable during this meeting for the above-stated reasons. am still processing it all and know i need to re-read the chapter and be open to what it is seeking to instill in me. i have not subjected my family to a lot of drunken bouts or hangovers. i have never really embarrassed them in public or in private because most of what i did within my drinking self was carried on out of earshot and eyesight and included my internet addiction as most of what i did (that was *wrong* on so many levels) on the internet was during my drinking times. i have internalized much of what my compulsive self brought me to, save for skirting the specifics in confession other than "i did wrong things" and a lot of this chapter didn't pertain to me.


but as the child of an addict, the whole chapter freaking dealt with me. this is the uncomfortable part. this is the part that is going to make me take my experiences from my past and bring them to the forefront and finally confront them.


eventually.


i think.

17 comments:

Kat said...

Penni;

It isn't any of my business really, but have you thought about counseling and Spiritual Direction in addition to the AA?

~m2~ said...

kat, like other things that have happened during my tenure with The Church, my spiritual director ceased coming to the shore because it wasn't worth her while to only see one person.

:: sigh ::

so no, i won't try that again.

Barbara(aka Layla) said...

Pen,

Keep going to meetings. I know its hard sometimes but there is so much healing there. I have never met anyone that regretted sticking with the program, but know lots who regret giving up.

One day, or hour or minute at a time babe, I'm with ya in spirit.

angelmeg said...

Pen, you might want to consider reading some literature on Adult Children of Alcoholics. It might help you process a lot of the stuff you are being hit with as you try to process what you are learning about in your AA meetings.

Just a thought from someone who has seen this same phenomenon in her favorite cousin whose parents were alcoholics.

Kat said...

Well,

You could always go talk to the priest you went to Confession to... its an idea.

Michael David said...

Dear Penni,
Deleting my comments is not going to help you recover the "little girl", you abandoned many years ago.

You have a conscious fear of intimacy & an unconscious fear of abandonment.

If you stay in AA you will end up an emotionally shutdown, demonic, raging, shape - shifting, "bull headed", Bill Wilson zombie?

I love you, Pani! Do you love me? How do you feel, Pen?

I, MICKY, AM A HOLY ONE OF GOD

Michael David said...

Dearest Pen,
THE SACRED BULL
I imagine 12 STEPPERS have sold their souls to the devil. Fortunately, I was saved through the power of Jesus Christ, but for many years had been exposed to the evil “satanic cult” (Alcoholics Anonymous) Wilson (AA) has prostituted himself & deluded many thousands (12 Step Groups) by worshipping the god Moloch (Ba’al the Sacred Bull).

It all started with his (Wilson) “drug induced hallucination”….
Here are references to seances and other psychic events….
Bill would…”get” these things …long sentences, word by word would come through….” (22)
, he asked for guidance….The words began tumbling out with astonishing speed….(23)

So A.A.’s 12 Steps were actually received verbatim from the demonic world. It is not surprising, then, that the effect of A.A. upon many of its members is to lead them into occult involvement. In 1958, Wilson wrote to Sam Shoemaker,
Throughout A.A., we find a large amount of psychic phenomena, nearly all of it spontaneous.

Alcoholic after alcoholic tells me of such experiences… run nearly the full gamut of everything we see in the books. In addition to my original mystical experience, I’ve had a lot of such phenomenalism myself.(24)

Wilson’s “original mystical experience” was his alleged “conversion” –a classic occult encounter: “Suddenly the room lit up with a great white light. I was caught up into an ecstasy…it burst upon me that I was a free man…a wonderful feeling of Presence, and I thought to myself, ‘So this is the God of the preachers! ‘ A great peace stole over me….”(25)

This was not the “God of the preachers” but the one who transforms himself “into an angel of light” (2 Cor 1l:l4)-a light that often transforms those involved in the occult.

The experience was so profound that Wilson never touched alcohol again. Satan would he more than willing to deliver a man from alcoholism in this life if thereby he could ensnare him for eternity and inspire him to lead millions to the same destruction!

Wilson joined the Oxford Group and regularly attended its meetings at Calvary Church (NY), pastored by Episcopalian Sam Shoemaker. Shoemaker urged his hearers to “accept God however they might conceive of him….”(26) Here was the origin of Step 3’s “God as we understood him.”

God does not respond to those who call upon false gods. Jesus said, “And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent” (Jn 17:3). God’s judgment comes upon them “that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ (2 Thes 1:8).

I will set my face against that man & his family & will cut off from their people both him & all who follow him in prostituting themselves to Molech. I will set my face against the person who turns to mediums & spiritists to prostitute himself by following them, & I will cut him off from his people. (Leviticus 20: 5, 6)

Moloch the God Ba’al, the Sacred Bull, was widely worshipped in the ancient Near East and wherever Carthaginian culture extended. Baal Moloch was conceived under the form of a calf or an ox or depicted as a man with the head of a bull.

Hadad, Baal or simply the King identified the god within his cult. The name Moloch is not the name he was known by among his worshippers, but a Hebrew Moloch (in the Septuagint Greek translation of the Old Testament), or Molech (Hebrew), is no different than the word Melech or king, transformed by interposing the vowels of bosheth or ’shameful thing’. translation. The written form.
He is sometimes also called Milcom in the Old Testament.

I beg you, Peni, to to get out while you can (12 Step) or end up as “bull headed” zombie?

I, MICKY,AM THE HOLY ONE OF GOD.

Michael David said...

Hi Penny,
Oxford group soul surgery techniques called for augmentation of guilt leading to the conversion experience. The alcoholics had learned, through their own conversion, a different method, augmentation of fear with an initial diminution of guilt.

“It’s not your fault it’s a disease. There is nothing you can do about it. You’ll die unless you believe.” When a person was properly convinced & reached a point of proper desperation, guilt was then applied to bring about conversion of God control.

These new groupers [Steppers] were motivated not primarily by guilt, but by fear. The other groupers [Steppers] being god controlled through guilt would use guilt to manipulate others.

I, MICKY, AM THE LORD'S LIGHT & SALVATION FOR OTHER PEOLE.

Michael David said...

My Dear Peni,
AA PUSSIES!
I don't attend AA meetings anymore -- thank God. I imagine leaving AA becomes more difficult the longer one has been exposed to this evil, soul-destroying cult. I read with some sadness of a Stepper who wanted to leave but found it difficult because AA was his whole life.

One becomes trapped & I imagine most Steppers feel safe albeit quite isolated from the real world. I imagine most Steppers don't have the guts to quit (AA) because of the indoctrination ("If you quit AA -- You will drink").

My process (recovery) started in 1994 (therapy, etc) but it took me many years to make a complete break from all 12 Step programs (I was also going to SLAA, CODA, ACOA). I imagine most alcoholics are terrified of intimacy (emotional cowards) & attending 12 Step programs is the ultimate escape (from intimacy).

I would suggest that quite a few of the Steppers are "pussies" because they won’t face life "full on" without the "crutch" of 12 Step programs.

Peace Be With You
Micky

Michael David said...

BILL WILSON'S PACT WITH SATAN
From Bill's Story:
Co - founder of AA, Bill Wilson's story has been in every edition of the book Alcoholics Anonymous.
With ministers, and the world's religions, I parted right there. When they talked of a God personal to me, who was love, superhuman strength and direction, I became irritated and my mind snapped shut against such a theory.

To Christ I conceded the certainty of a great man, not too closely followed by those who claimed Him. His moral teaching -- most excellent. For myself, I had adopted those parts which seemed convenient and not too difficult; the rest I disregarded.

My friend suggested what then seemed a novel idea. He said, "Why don't you choose your own conception of God?"
That statement hit me hard. It melted the icy intellectual mountain in whose shadow I had lived and shivered many years. I stood in the sunlight at last.

It was only a matter of being willing to believe in a Power greater than myself. Nothing more was required of me to make my beginning. I saw that growth could start from that point. Upon a foundation of complete willingness I might build what I saw in my friend. Would I have it? Of course I would! Thus was I convinced that God is concerned with us humans when we want Him enough.

At long last I saw, I felt, I believed. Scales of pride and prejudice fell from my eyes. A new world came into view. The real significance of my experience in the Cathedral burst upon me. For a brief moment, I had needed and wanted God. There had been a humble willingness to have Him with me -- and He came.

But soon the sense of His presence had been blotted out by worldly clamors, mostly those within myself. And so it had been ever since. How blind I had been.
At the hospital I was separated from alcohol for the last time. Treatment seemed wise, for I showed signs of delirium tremens.

There I humbly offered myself to God, as I then I understood Him, to do with me as He would. I placed myself unreservedly under His care and direction. I admitted for the first time that of myself I was nothing; that without Him I was lost.

I ruthlessly faced my sins and became willing to have my new-found Friend take them away, root and branch. I have not had a drink since. Simple, but not easy; a price had to be paid. It meant destruction of self-centeredness.

I must turn in all things to the Father of Light who presides over us all. These were revolutionary and drastic proposals, but the moment I fully accepted them, the effect was electric. There was a sense of victory, followed by such a peace and serenity as I had never know.

There was utter confidence. I felt lifted up, as though the great clean wind of a mountain top blew through and through. God comes to most men gradually, but His impact on me was sudden and profound.
For a moment I was alarmed, and called my friend, the doctor, to ask if I were still sane. He listened in wonder as I talked.
Finally he shook his head saying, "Something has happened to you I don't understand. But you had better hang on to it. Anything is better than the way you were." The good doctor now sees many men who have such experiences. He knows that they are real.

While I lay in the hospital the thought came that there were thousands of hopeless alcoholics who might be glad to have what had been so freely given me. Perhaps I could help some of them. They in turn might work with others.
There is no mention of JESUS CHRIST in the BIG BOOK or the 12 STEPS. Wilson was used by SATAN to delude millions of people.

John 3:16 (chapter 3, verse 16 of the Gospel of John) is one of the most widely quoted verses from the Christian Bible. It has been called the "Bible in a nutshell" because it is considered a summary of some of the most central doctrines of traditional Christianity:

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have eternal life.
A typical interpretation of the verse might go as follows:
· For God so loved the world... - God is a God of love and this love motivates his action in the rest of the verse
· ...that he gave... - there was God giving something, his son as a sacrifice
· ...his only begotten[1] Son... - the human Jesus of Nazareth is also the Son of God, and also the Second Person of the Trinity
· ...that whosoever... - that salvation is open to all who will believe
· ...believeth... - being saved is based on belief or faith, rather than based on human works.
· ...in Him... - the belief being in Jesus, the Saviour
· ...should not perish... - implies the fate of those who do not believe, that is the doctrine of hell
· ...but have everlasting life. - shows the reward of those who believe, that is the doctrine of heaven.

Were you abused as a child, Peni?

I, MICKY, AM THE HOLY ONE OF GOD.

Michael David said...

Anonymous said...
I cannot tell you how many AA meetings I left, thinking that if my choices were to be in AA or drink, I'd choose drinking.
I went to my first meeting 30 years ago. I am most qualified to speak for AA.

Micky Said:
Greetings Anonymous [Emotional Coward]
I imagine that your brain has been completely altered with Bill Wilson’s anti – Christ propaganda [AA]. I’ll let you into a little secret, Anonymous [SHAPE SHIFTING REPTILE], one can stay sober without the need for AA meetings – I have!!

The only qualifications you have, Anonymous [Bill Wilson Clone], are the qualifications you received from SATAN, when you abandoned yourself to him, 30 years ago [AA].

Peace be With You
Micky

Michael David said...

DOES ALCOHOLICS ANONYMOUS FOCUS ON JESUS CHRIST?

"Agents For Satan"
A DOZEN STEPS
A REASON A SEASON A LIFETIME
AAWAKENINGS
ALCOHOLIC BRAIN
ANONYMOUS ALCOHOLIC
ATTITUDE OF GRATITUDE
BIG SKY MAACK
BLUE'S THOUGHTS
COFFEE BITCH
DRAGON SPEAK
FLOWERDAVES PAGES
FROM THE FIRST CHAKRA (MSB)
HIGHER POWERED
I'M JUST F.I.N.E.
INMATEZ WIFE
IT'S A GIRL THING
LUSH FOR LIFE
MY JOURNEY TO RECOVERY
MY LIFE IN TAMPA
NO COMMENT
OUTRIGHT MENTAL DEFECTIVE
POSTCARDS FROM CUPCAKE MONKEY
RAANCH
RECOVERY ROAD
RIDIN' ON THE WAGON
SCOUT'S NEWCOMER DAZE
SIMPLY ANNA
SOBER CHICK
SOBER MOM
SOBER NUGGETS
SOBERING THOUGHTS
SOBERINSANITY
STAY AT HOME MOTHERDOM
STAYING STRAIGHT EDGE
THIS UNMANAGEABLE LIFE
THY WILL, NOT MINE
TODAAY
TWELVEBEADS
TWO DOGS BLOGGING
YOU AND ME ARE FLOATING...

Peace Be With You
Micky

Michael David said...

I LOVE JESUS SO MUCH
I SHOULD NEVER HAVE ANY CAUSE OR REASON TO BE ASHAMED TO LOVE JESUS.
Is not the time coming, and the day hastening, when covetous men shall be ashamed of loving the world, and voluptuous men ashamed of loving their pleasures, and ambitious men ashamed of loving their honors?

For is it not a horrid shame, that a rational creature should be such a sot as to love sin which is most loathsome, and not to love Jesus who is most lovely? to love deformity, and not beauty?
Oh shame, shame! It is a shame that sin should have such esteem, and Jesus such great contempt put upon him. But shame shall before long confound these now shameless wretches, when they shall cry out, "We are ashamed that we loved profits, and not Jesus- houses, lands, lusts, and not Jesus.

This is the confusion of our faces, and shame covers us-- that we should be so foolish, and so blind, that we had not sense, nor reason, to distinguish between sin, which is the greatest and most odious evil, and Jesus who is the greatest and most lovely good." But the time will never come, the day will never be, that a gracious soul shall be ashamed of his sincere love to Jesus Christ.

Do you love me, Pen?

I, MICKY, AM THE LORD'S LIGHT & SALVATION FOR OTHER PEOPLE.

Michael David said...

HOW IT SUCKS:
Rarely have we seen a person fail who thoroughly followed us home. Those who are not BRAINWASHED are people who cannot or will not completely give themselves to this garbage, usually men and women who are constitutionally capable of thinking for themselves. There are such fortunates. They are not at fault; they seem to have been born premature.

They are naturally capable of building and developing muscles, which demands rigorous training. Their chances are 6/4 on.
There are those, too, who are gravediggers and undertakers, but many of them do become ZOMBIES if they have the capacity to be dishonest.

Our stories disclose in a twisted way, who we like, what happened, and who we hate now. If you have decided you want a cup of tea and are willing to go to any lengths to become emotionally shutdown, SHIFT SHAPING REPTILES - then you are ready to take certain steps.

At some of these we balked, we thought we could find someone to 13th Step. And we realised, we could. With all the madness at our command, we beg of you to become Bill Wilson Clones - from the very start. Some of us have tried to hold on to our BIG BOOKS and the result was nil until we let go of our SPONSORS.

Remember that we deal with alcohol, frothy, bubbly, and powerful! Without help it is too much for us. But there is one who has all power that one is the BARMAN. May you find Him now!

Half measures availed us nothing. We stood at the bar. We asked the BARMAN for a couple of stiff whiskies. Here are the steps we took, which are suggested as a program to INSANITY:

1.We admitted we were powerless over Coca - Cola, and decided to drink Pepsi, instead.
2.Came to believe that Cold Power was a detergent.
3.Made a decision to turn our heads when we saw an attractive blonde.
4.Did a body search of the new members.
5.Admitted to our DOG, to elves, and to another super being the exact nature of our songs.
6.Were entirely ready to have SUPERMAN remove the effects of kryptonite.
7.Humbly asked CLARK KENT to remove our brains.
8.Made a list of all persons who owed us money, and became willing to charge them interest.
9.Made direct hits wherever possible, except when someone moved the target.
10.Continued to talk crap and when we were wrong, promptly talked more crap.
11.Sought through our mail and computer to improve our conscious contact with BATMAN, as we understood him, praying only for knowledge of ROBIN and the return of SPIDERMAN.
12.Having had a stroke as the result of these steps, we tried to carry out the garbage, and fell flat on our backs.

Many of us exclaimed, "What an order! I can't go through with it." Do not be discouraged. No one among us has been able to maintain their homes and 13th Step the newcomers, at the same time. We are not psychopaths. The point is, that we are willing to become psychotic.

The principles we have set down are guides to psychosis. We claim that Bill Wilson was a psychopath.
Our description of the landscape, the chapter to the Gnostic, and our family photos before and after make clear three pertinent ideas:
(a) That we were ugly and could not manage our own appearance.
(b) That probably no photographer could have improved our looks.
(c) That a PLASTIC SURGEON could and would if he were sought.

Did you enjoy that, Penny? How do you feel?

I, MICKY, AM THE HOLY ONE OF GOD.

Michael David said...

I AM A GIFT TO ALL PEOPLE:

But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God,
—John 1:12

16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.
—John 3:16-17

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
—John 14:6

Let it be known to you therefore, brothers, that through this man forgiveness of sins is proclaimed to you, and by him everyone who believes is freed from everything from which you could not be freed by the law of Moses.
—Acts 13:38-39

For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.
—Romans 1:16

for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
—Romans 3:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.
—Romans 6:23

because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes and is justified, and with the mouth one confesses and is saved. For the Scripture says, “Everyone who believes in him will not be put to shame.” For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, bestowing his riches on all who call on him. For “everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
—Romans 10:9-13

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come.
—2 Corinthians 5:17

In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit, who is the guarantee of our inheritance until we acquire possession of it, to the praise of his glory.
—Ephesians 1:13-14

For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
—Ephesians 2:8-9

Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, so now, not only as in my presence but much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling,
—Philippians 2:12

And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.
—Colossians 2:13-14

For God has not destined us for wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, who died for us so that whether we are awake or asleep we might live with him.
—1 Thessalonians 5:9-10

For the grace of God has appeared, bringing salvation for all people, training us to renounce ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright, and godly lives in the present age, waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, who gave himself for us to redeem us from all lawlessness and to purify for himself a people for his own possession who are zealous for good works.
—Titus 2:11-14

Though you have not seen him, you love him. Though you do not now see him, you believe in him and rejoice with joy that is inexpressible and filled with glory, obtaining the outcome of your faith, the salvation of your souls.
—1 Peter 1:8-9
PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY

Michael David said...

Greetings Peni,
I wonder if this n\might interest you:

SATANIC CULT:
Since the AA cult is the one that called for Wilson to have a "drug induced hallucination" & since it is alive & well in all 12 Step Programs today, that information seems a rather pertinent factor to weigh in if one is to look for a suspect as to who & what & how the Bible, which is the word of God can be replaced by a Big Book (12 Step) disease scenario attributed to Frank Buchman, Wilson, Smith, et al.

Is the triumph of today's 12 Step paradigm, which is certified by the World Health Organization - a clear confirmation that those ancient "brain dead" misfits Wilson & Smith were supernatural messengers of God. That's what Alcoholic Anonymous is saying.

Or is that triumph which is destroying the cornerstone of Bible credibility & hence Christianity a long laid "satanic" motivated strategy to replace Jesus of the New Testament with a higher power.
"How many 12 Step Programs are there? Hard to tell.... I suppose if you count all the smaller groups, there are a hundred or so." A hundred "groups"! That's a lot & we haven't gotten to some of the other sects. Actually, these groups come from 20th century sects, who included the Oxford Group, Buchmanism & Alcoholics Anonymous. Of these, only AA survived & all 12 Step Programs are descended from it.

PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY

Michael David said...

Mary P Jones (MPJ) said...
This is my husband's favorite passage from the Big Book. "Acceptance is the answer to all my problems today" is a line we quote all the time, whenever we are feeling frustrated and resentful.

Micky Said:
Dear Mary
Your husband needs to read the Bible? The Big Book was written by one of SATAN'S messengers - BILL WILSON.

PEACE BE WITH YOU
MICKY